Bac's State Plot Errors and I will prove you wrong

[Lu Kane]

jedimasterbac said:

No

Doing this is my passion, and I don't want other people to get things wrong.

your passion is correcting people when they're wrong?

[Brandon Rhea]

kressh said:

jedimasterbac said:

No

Doing this is my passion, and I don't want other people to get things wrong.

your passion is correcting people when they're wrong?

Yes

[Lu Kane]

that sounds like fun

[Brandon Rhea]

Yes, it is.

[Halan]

rogerqeldroma said:

Wow this is funa nd easy can I help you out Bac?

[Brandon Rhea]

sevordo said:

rogerqeldroma said:

Wow this is funa nd easy can I help you out Bac?

LOL, yeah. Obviously he has never met me before

[Karmien Starkiller]

I've got a plot error. How come Leia tells luke about her Mom if she died when she was about 2 minutes old?

[Drago Solaris]

sithboy7 said:

I've got a plot error. How come Leia tells luke about her Mom if she died when she was about 2 minutes old?

shes talkin bout her adobting mom if u see at end of ep 3 she is taken in buy sum dude and his wife

[Karmien Starkiller]

Grrr... I will find another.

[Brandon Rhea]

Shadow, you are 100% INCORRECT. Leia was not talking about her adopted mother, Queen Breha Organa. She was talking about PADME.

From the Desk of Ghent (Paul Ens of Lucasfilm)...

I've seen it suggested that Leia is speaking of her adopted mother (the Queen of Alderaan, Bail's wife) rather than Padme. Let's look at the exchange...

LUKE: Leia... do you remember your mother? Your real mother?
LEIA: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.

Asking someone if they remember their real mother is really gutsy, unless you've had previous conversations establishing that they are adopted. In that context, the "your real mother" clarification definitely means biological mother.

If they hadn't previously discussed it, Leia would have replied, "How did you know I was adopted?" (assuming Leia knows), or "What do you mean my real mother? I have only one mother."

Besides, if it's not Padme then this exchange has no dramatic meaning.

So, what does Leia claim she can remember?

LUKE: What do you remember?
LEIA: Just images, really. Feelings.
LUKE: Tell me.
LEIA: She was very beautiful. Kind, but sad.

It is certainly common for every day people to describe their earliest memories in terms of emotions and images. These impressions may or may not be accurate, but feel real. Typically specific lasting memories are not formed until a few years into life, but there are exceptions. This may or may not be true in the Star Wars universe.

While it is in no way critical to this discussion, nor can it be backed up by movie evidence, it is even possible that Bail at some point showed Leia a photograph of her biological mother. It is commonplace for the brain to mix memories of images with memories of the actual event.

Yoda tells Luke, "Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone."

The movies imply that Leia is Force sensitive. It is certainly possible that while growing up, Leia received visions of her mother through the Force. Visions of the past, precisely as Yoda describes.

Notice that Luke's Force vision of the future also came in images and feelings, "I saw a city in the clouds" and "They were in pain".

It is also possible the Leia's impressions of her mother formed before her birth. What can the films tell us about this?

Yoda says of the Force, "Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock. Yes, even between the land and the ship."

Yoda is certainly not placing the burden of conscience or will, or even sentience, on the connections the Force will make. Life-to-life seems to be the only requirement. (Are rocks alive?) A mother-daughter binding in the Force existed in some form.

It is inconclusive as to whether the general connection in the Force of all things is enough for specific awareness or not. Certainly Padme is not aware of both twins. Then again, Padme is not portrayed as a Force user, so we can't necessarily expect her to feel these Force connections.

Qui-Gon explains to Anakin, "Midi-chlorians are a microscopic life form that resides within all living cells and communicates with the Force." Again, this is a clear description of the nature of the communication and connection in the Force to be an involuntary one, happening without need of will or consciousness.

It is safe to assume that as a feared offspring of Anakin, Leia has a midi-chlorian count that is at least above average if not exceptional. In the months Leia was in the womb, there would have been a lot of Force-based communication and connection with her mother, whether Leia was aware of it or not, leaving cellular, midi-chlorian, and even "real" memories of Padme.

Exceptionally early memory-making, later-in-life visions from the Force, or pre-consciousness connection through the Force are all viable reasons why Leia would have formed lasting memories of Padme in the minutes or hours they shared in a medical room together.

This isn't a plot hole.

My personal opinion cannot be backed up from the films, so I leave to you only as food for thought.

I believe that the highly Force sensitive twins were abnormally conscious and aware even in the womb, and that Leia's memories were more than passive, but were part of a real relationship formed before birth.

This line of thought is endorsed in the Star Wars expanded universe. In Dark Empire, Leia's unborn twins (Jacen and Jaina) lend their Force power to their mother, to help defeat Palpatine one last time.

From the Desk of Bac...

If she was not talking about Padme, it would not (like Paul said) have ANY dramatic meaning to it. Luke and Leia both recieved something from Padme at birth.

Leia recieved a memory of a woman who was very beautiful, yet sad knowing that she has lost herself, is about to lose her twins, has lost her Republic, and most importantly lost Anakin. That is what Leia remembers seeing.

Luke recieves the notion that there is still good in Darth Vader. Remember, Obi-Wan was holding Luke when Padme said, "Obi-Wan...there is good in him...I know...I know there is...still..." So, Luke heard her say that and had it ingrained into his head from day one. He later repeated it to Obi-Wan. "There is still good in him", though Obi-Wan didn't believe it.


So, there you have it, she was talking about Padme and it is NOT a plot error. People just need to learn to think creatively and outside of the box.

[Drago Solaris]

you get

for the longest post iv been bothered to half read in a while

[Master Bondora]

ok heres a hard one...

If the Sith have been extinct for millennia's and that they always been working in the shadows since the battle of Ruusan then how did Yoda know that there was always two of them, a master and a apprentice.

BAC: Yoda was going on an assumption really, with facts to back it up.

1) Yoda knew that if there were more than two Sith Lords, they would be fighting each other to "win the crown"

2) The Sith had been extinct for quite some time, so if there were more than two they would have been spotted

3) Yoda knew about Darth Maul, so he knew there had to be one more out there: a master or an apprentice

My feelings are that it is a simple case of the films contridicting the Expanded Universe, which happens frequently becuase George Lucas is in no way obliged to follow the Expanded Universe. Lucas may think that the Battle of Ruusan was the last time the Jedi saw the Sith. He may feel that the Jedi found the two Sith and thought that they were destroyed, but before doing so found out about the Rule of Two and that it was passed down to the wisest in the Jedi Order.

What Lucas is really doing is adding mystery to the films. He wants you to think and not have everything spoon fed to you. So, because it is just mystery added to the films, there is no plot error.

[The Ghost of J3Carlilse]

jedimasterbac said:

Basically, he was able to absorb them into his hands. It was because he had all mechanical circutry. It's *kinda* like how Yoda absorbed Force Lightning in Attack of the Clones.

I would have to disagree, his ability to block the laser shots came through the force and not the mechanical circutry in his hands, but whatever, not a plot error, or even a reason to fight, so anyway, I will leave you to your plot errors.

[Brandon Rhea]

joseph said:

jedimasterbac said:

Basically, he was able to absorb them into his hands. It was because he had all mechanical circutry. It's *kinda* like how Yoda absorbed Force Lightning in Attack of the Clones.

I would have to disagree, his ability to block the laser shots came through the force and not the mechanical circutry in his hands, but whatever, not a plot error, or even a reason to fight, so anyway, I will leave you to your plot errors.

I just want to state a rebutle really quickly. Because that arm was not real, he had no Force in it. Remember, when Vader was injured on Mustafar he lost about 30% of his midichlorians. So, that arm has no midichlorians in it, meaning that it has no Force in it.

[Darth Marv]

but he can still use his mind can't he, he can choke people with it so i'm guessing he can stop blaster fire